Please know, I haven’t read this book yet. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, go here to see an excerpt. The book goes on sale on 1/11/2011) I plan to read it as soon as I can, and see what all the fuss is about. (How can there be fuss before the book ever comes out? Not sure.)
Does anyone have any thoughts to share? Has anyone read the book yet? Or read the Wall Street Journal excerpt?
I read the WSJ article yesterday, and was actually really excited. Yes, the lady sounds like a nut job – she threatened to throw her daughter’s dollhouse away, piece by piece, until the song the girl was practicing was perfect. But Mom, you’re not walking out the door yet. You won’t do it. ‘Then’, she said ‘I will burn all of your stuffed animals.’ The girl knew that her mother wasn’t about to start destroying her property The mother called her names, used guilt, fear, anything she could think of. And in the end? The girl, out of the blue, got the piece perfectly…and they both were THRILLED. Her mother believed she could do it, and simply didn’t let up until she was proved right.
I certainly don’t think I could ever ascribe to the Genuine Authentic Chinese Mother method spelled out by Miss Chua…but I think there are some things I can take from her model to use with my kids. I desperately want Ming Wai to develop self confidence…I want her to have a lot more than I have, that’s for sure! I want her to know that, if she tries hard enough, there are not many things that she canNOT do.
Sunday night, after reading the article, I put some theories to the test. I started very small – a Chinese phrase. It’s one that Ming Wai has known the words for forever. Two very simple words. I just wanted her to figure out how to put them together and phrase it into a request. We were at my sister’s house, so I took her into another room and told her I would not give her what she wanted until she asked me in Chinese. Mommy, help. No, I said. Say it in Chinese. Then I sat back. And waited. She giggled. Mommy, I don’t know how. “中文 (Chinese)” I told her.
Mommy, 幫. (Mommy, help.)
“No.” I pointed again to the thing I wanted her to name. “What. Is. This.”
Finally, she got it. “Great! Now (holding up the second object) what is this?” She answered that one right away.
Then she phrased it into a request.
Then I gave her what she had asked for ten minutes before, along with a huge hug. “I knew you could do it!!!” She was all smiles.
I think that is the trick. What I gathered from the article that I read was that Chua expected excellence from her daughters…and worked with them until she got it. She was not in the kitchen, working on another project, and yelling across the house. She was sitting next to her daughter, endlessly drilling and demonstrating. And when the girl finally got it right (which has to happen eventually, right?), OH how the praise would flow. That is where Chua believes that children get confidence from: achieving a goal that they believed to be impossible.
In the case of the piano lesson, and the endless threats of the destruction of beloved toys, the girl, without even seeming to try any harder than the 14 dozen times she had tried before, she suddenly got the section of the song right. She glanced at her mother. She played it again. And again. Mom, this is so easy now! And it was. It was easy then, because she had mastered it. And then the praise flowed. Giggling, ‘proud of you’ type praise. Genuine celebrating.
As she said, not many things are fun until you are good at them.
Now, I don’t expect that I will begin to call my daughter names or threaten to burn her stuffed animals if she doesn’t perform as expected on a piano piece. I do expect, though, that I will consciously push my children a little harder. Keep at it a little longer. Sit still a little more, and use the age old technique of Drilling. Ming Wai is the type of girl to sit back, say “I just can’t do it” and leave it at that. But there will be things in life where that simply won’t be acceptable. I will not accept that she can’t speak Chinese. She CAN. Her white mother learned it in 12 weeks without ever hearing a syllable of Cantonese before. I will not accept that she cannot finish her school work. She CAN. It’s not impossible. It might be difficult, and certain subjects may take more (or a LOT more) work than others. And I guess that’s what I’m there for. And if I want, for them, the kind of skills that they will need to succeed in school…then I may just have to accept the fact that their “homework time”, at least for the first few years, might be just as much mine as theirs. I cannot sit my first grader down and expect them to understand everything by themselves. At least, I don’t see that happening with Ming Wai. I am a piano teacher – worksheets and I are no strangers!
I am really interested in seeing what others have to say on this topic. If not on this specific book, then just general thoughts on pushing kids, expectations for kids, and routines and methods for schoolwork. I remember being, generally, left alone to do my schoolwork. At times, there were some very late nights, as I put things off and couldn’t seem to get settled until after dinner to do any really big projects. It’s not that that’s a BAD way to do things…but I don’t see Ming Wai as being particularly successful with that model of studying.
(And yes, I’m not talking about Siu Jeun much here because…well, right now he’d just as soon throw a pencil as learn to use it for anything else. He’s 2, and will bring challenges all his own! Ming Wai is in her second year of pre-school, both years at home, and teaching her is STILL a blood-boiling challenge if she feels that she “can’t do it”. Heh. We know how to push each others buttons.)
Share your thoughts, y’all! I will respond to comments IN THE COMMENTS, so please be sure to check back or click the box to receive follow-up comments in your e-mail box.
I just read an article on msnbc about this yesterday. I do believe there is a happy medium. There are a lot of down sides to the Chinese mothering. The kids didn't get touched, hugged, or praised. They only got threatened or disciplined when they brought home bad grades and such. No sleepovers, no playdates...It's a huge part why there are social problems in some of the older adults(I said some, not all). I am glad this new generation is changing in China though. I do believe that you need to believe your child can do anything and accomplish anything, but I don't believe it needs to happen by fear. http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/10/5805977-chinese-or-western-who-wins-the-mommy-war-
ReplyDeleteI can see where you and the author are coming from. I agree we should have expectations of our kids, and to do it in the way this is suggesting, we need to know their capabilities intimately, and work with them ENDLESSLY. And as you said, not many mothers are willing to listen to one song for 4 hours at a time until it's right. It's hard to imagine doing this, because we've taken such a self-directed approach with our self-directed daughter: she spends the hours learning, but is much more successful when those hours are on her own time schedule. And again, who knows what the future holds. And no, I NEVER accept "I can't do it." :) Won't, don't know how, haven't taken the time to really try....but don't say you "can't." We'll see what next year looks like, when we've moved past the warm fuzzies of kindergarten and into formal curriculum!
ReplyDeleteI read the article and it sounds just like my mom without certain parts of craziness. For example, not letting her daughter have fun with friends and not letting her daughter be in a school play? I was on a dance team that took up sooo much of my time (7 AM start time very morning) plus Sat and Sun practice starting in Feb, plus Mon - Fri practice from after school until 10 PM starting in March through May, our big show. Was it stupid? Maybe. Was it something my mom could have stopped me from? Definitely. But she didn't and she supported me and I decided to quit my senior year since it took away so much of my time from the Speech and Debate Team but had my mom not allowed me to, I would regret it to this day and hold her accountable. I'm curious to know what her daughters are like, in terms of how they are now - socially awkward? normal? happy? It's definitely very inquisitive of her to share why Chinese moms are more straight forward (you're fat, lose weight, you suck at this, you can do it - what's wrong?!) versus more compassionate... yet to this day, my mom and I are not too lovey dovey and I do wish I had that. She was with me through every single 1 hour of piano playing and when she wasn't, I wouldn't do it, but I still think there is not right way. You just have to build principles and then figure out what works for you! I do like her reasoning for making her daughter work at it until she got good at it and I'll admit, being good feels better - duh, and my mom believes you can do anything you set your heart to, but it's also important to praise and hug your child and definitely agree with the social problems Mags commented on.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read the book, though did skim the articles. I also never took a class with the author, though she taught at my law school and was -- perhaps somewhat ironically, given this topic -- known for being very easy to write papers with (e.g., you could write out an explanation of what you intended to write, and she'd give you credit). Also, for being quite brilliant and extremely nice. I enjoyed dinner with her once and the couple of talks she gave that I attended, though -- definitely seemed to have worked quite hard to get where she was, and very much deserved it.
ReplyDeleteIt's like everybody's talking about this book and now I am intrigued.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I don't think there is one magic formula for success for all children, even those of the same race. My parents never really pushed me. They did make a point of emphasizing the value of education and love for learning (anything!). The latter more from my mom. Whenever I made the honor roll, there were praises, but not too big a fuss --more like an acknowledgment, the I-knew-you-could-you-do-it kind. When I got my first 74% in Algebra (a failing mark, as passing in our school was at least 75%), my parents did not get upset (esp. considering that my dad was a math prof!). My mom very matter-of-factly stated that the grades I make would dictate whether I'd get into the university I wanted, that it's within my control. No recriminations or threats, but a reminder that I am responsible for my actions and whatever they might be, there'd be consequences --good or bad. Personally, with J & Z, I try to do the same. Instill in them a love for learning (and find joy in it!) and an appreciation for the value of a good education. That they need to "own" their actions, not just with regards to academics, but with everything else. I think both J & Z are there in terms of the love of learning part, but I'm still working on the "owning" their actions bit!
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ReplyDeleteThank you, everybody, for chiming in!!
ReplyDeleteMy intent was certainly not to say that the Chinese way is the BEST way to raise children. Or even that all Chinese people use the method described in the article. And I do not intend to call my children names and shame them...much.
I kid! Sort of.
I do intend to push my children a little bit more. And my piano students. I have already started! When a child, or a student, refuses to engage and even TRY to understand their homework, I push. With my children, I give them a choice. "Do you want to be stupid?" Or if they are being mean, "Do you want to be pretty? Only kind people are beautiful."
With my piano students, I simply don't offer any other option - here is the question, and I will sit here and stare at you until you give me an answer that you have actually thought about.
Thoughts?
I'll just have to disagree :) Piano students, yes. It can be hard to engage those kids, and there is a certain amount of "I KNOW you know this But telling my kids that their beauty or intelligence depends on getting something right....I've lived through too much of that to want to convince my kids of it. I just don't believe in calling kids names, that's all.
ReplyDeleteI read this post and then someone at recipe group brought it up. I might have to read it just to see. I think that my Chinese mother (who was definitely not as strict) did a lot of good things, insisting that we get good grades, working with us, being there, never letting us feel like we had to "suffer" through practice or work alone. At the same time, she was more affectionate than other Asian mothers are, but didn't coddle. So, I guess it worked, I think I turned out pretty good. There are things I take from her and things I change, I want my kids to be more self-sufficient than I think the average Asian mom does. I want them to decide and choose for themselves, but there will be consequences for actions, and I won't sit idlly by as they fail at certain things. I don't know what is best, but I am glad you wrote about this, interesting to think about!
ReplyDeleteI just can't help commenting. I will just by saying I am sorry if I offend any non-Asian mothers/parents. I do feel that the Chinese way of teaching is much better for children before they really learn how to think for themselves (I do not know when that age is, but I think it depends on the kid - some could be 5, some could be 8 (which I think most kids can think at that age), and some could be 18 and still don't know how to think for themselves). I do not plan on holding my kids hands through every choice. But I want to be involved. I want to educate my kids how the world works (the world does not go by my own schedule, and there will be mean people and there will be nice people). Therefore, if I continue to be just nice and let my kids do their own thing, then there is a good chance that they will not fit in either. Sufficient pressure is good. Feeling bad, and sad because at some point I didn't feel I could do something was horrible for me at that moment, but achieving what I thought I couldn't that was amazing. If I was at home with the kids, I would teach them what I think they need to know that age and apply the appropriate amount of pressure. Have a time table of when they are going to sit and learn, when they are going to play. If they won't sit still when it's time to learn, then too bad, there will be consequences (again the world just doesn't go by their schedule). It is tough on the parent who is teaching and had to enforce the rules, but I am an example that it WORKS. That is how I learned that you do not go play until you finish your homework. That is how I learned that studying and getting good grades are expected. That is how I learned that as an adult, I have certain responsibilities whether it be being polite to people, or doing chores, or cleaning up your own messes, or providing for the family. I am not going to yell at my kids all the time and make them feel like crap. But I do believe that kids learning how to deal with pressure and expectation is very important. In the workforce today, I see new kids, fresh out of college every year, and I think that they are missing that component in their lives as children. They have no sense of responsibility, can't deal with deadlines, pressure, and expectation, don't have much respect to their superiors, and all they think about is "what's in it for me". Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I honestly and truly believe that we can no longer just let kids do their own thing on their own time.
ReplyDeleteWell said, Uncle Lo Gung! We all want the same things for our kids, in the end....I guess we find out in 20 years if we did it right or not :) There can't be just ONE way to teach a child responsibility, and do it kindly, right? There are fabulous people all over the world, raised by fabulous parents, in totally different ways.
ReplyDeleteLo Gung, agreed. I have to say, though, that as YOUR WIFE, I find your methods a little harsh. ;-) Great in theory, though! What I am realizing, though, honestly...is that the children's rearing is MY RESPONSIBILITY. I mean, yes, I have a partner in all of this. But that "partner" is at work all day. He leaves before the kids get up in the morning, and comes home at dinner time. After dinner, it's very nearly straight to bed! If I want kids that know how to do things, I need to teach them. They do not suddenly gain skills simply by being older. If I want Ming Wai to know how to talk to my peers, then my peers are going to need to suffer through a few very awkward attempts. If I want Siu Jeun to know how to behave during meal time, then there will be a few meals that are miserable as we figure out the process.
ReplyDelete*sigh*
Hmm, I just read through all the responses. I think as parents we ultimately teach what we feel is important. For instance, one thing I agree with in the article was the respect for your teacher/coach thing. Just recently I had some pretty strong feelings about my son's basketball coach but I waited until he was in bed to express them to my husband because there is no way one of my kids will ever disrespect a coach. Same goes for their teachers in my opinion. I won't call children names for being mean. I have stopped them in their tracks and asked them how they felt inside. I am surprised they are very connected and can recognize that they really don't feel that great when they are being mean or saying something that hurts their sibling. When I help them recognize that, they get it. Does it fix all the siblings problems, no. Does it lessen them? It actually does. But I agree with Myrnie. You can have very clear expectations and when kids know about them, they usually achieve them. I was expected to bring home the good grades and I usually did. My brother didn't have that expectation so he scraped by. Let me tell you as an adult, he is still scraping by. I will not have different expectations of my children like my parents did. Most children I have run across really do aim to please. I will let them know when I am pleased with them. That is something I found lacking in the article. That mother in the article never praised the grade or act that was expected and achieve. It was just a consequence based environment which I don't agree with. Yes, consequences need to be there because quite frankly if we don't teach with consequences the world will teach our kids fast and harsh. But there should also be the praise and pride in your child for a job well done. Wow, this turned out to be much longer than planned. Way to hit the controversial button there. ;-)
ReplyDeleteLots of long comments! Sorry I haven't had time to read them all. I thought this was a well articulated response: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703333504576080422577800488.html
ReplyDeletePersonally I think we all have weaknesses as mothers, thinking we know everything is one, not being sure enough of ourselves to take a stand in the face of tears is another. We all feel our way through it and so do our children. In the end life is about experience and we get it no matter what kind of a mother we have.
I guess ultimately parents need to decide for themselves what's acceptable and what is not. When a child behaves or responds in a certain way, one must ask, "is this an acceptable behavior?" If you think it is tolerable for "just this once" you are in for it. Unacceptable behavior, when gone unnoticed, translates to "that' o.k." in the minds of children. If they can get away with it, they will. And please don't think that "oh, he'll grow out of it" or "I'll correct him until he's older." The truth is that when he is older, he will get confused because what has been acceptable for all these years suddenly isn't anymore, and how's a kid going to deal with that?
ReplyDeleteI think one of the genious of the Asian philosophy is that the ability of the child is separate from the being of the child. When a child fails or is inadequate in something, the parents do not attribute that to some kind of innate flaw (which can lead to self-esteem issues), instead they attribute that to laziness or work ethic problems. So they start removing distractions and "help" the child zero-in and sharply focuses on the task at hand. And you are drilled until you get it -- and amazingly, the kid always get it at the end.
Unless there is a functional reason that the child "can't" do something, the general thought in the far East is "yes, you can." President Heber J. Grant is a perfect example.